Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Ours is a people business. We hire people to help take care of people globally. The restaurant industry employs millions of people every single year. And I know when you look at your monthly P and L, you know what I know that payroll represents the single biggest line item on that monthly P and L. Our people matter a great deal. Who we hire, how we hire them, how we teach them to take care of people the way that we want them taken care of. If they're that important, then why aren't we more deliberate and intentional about the way we find them, about the way that we bring them into the fold? That's what today's episode is all about. Not about training, not about managing or developing those people, just about hiring them. How can we get better hiring practices so that we can be a better place to work and we can find better people to work for us? All of that on today's episode of Restaurant Strategy. There's an old saying that goes something like this. You'll only find three kinds of people in the world. Those who see, those who will never see, and those who can see when shown. This is Restaurant Strategy, a podcast with answers for anyone who's looking.
[00:01:27] Hey, everyone, thanks for tuning in. My name is Chip Close, and this is Restaurant Strategy, a podcast dedicated to helping you build a more profitable restaurant. We talk a lot about profit on this show. It is quite literally the only thing that matters in your business. Yes, you want to have good food and good service and a cool decor, I get it. But good food, good service, cool decor is all a means to an end. It all drives towards profitability. A business, your business, any business, exists to generate profit, right? You have to make sure you're bringing in more than you are spending that little bit extra, that surplus. What's left over is what we call profit. Profit is the only thing that matters because it means security, stability, growth, legacy, whatever you want it to mean. That's what it's about. That's what this podcast is helping you do. I also work individually with restaurant owners from all over the world. We've worked with currently over 300 people, people in five different countries through the P3 mastermind. I talk a lot about this mastermind. If you want to learn more about it, meaning if you got a busy restaurant but you are struggling with profitability, if you are not hitting consistent, predictable 20% returns every single month, then this is a conversation. We can have 30 minutes absolutely free with me or someone from my team. We're just going to get to know each other better. You get to ask us a ton of questions about the program we run to see if you're a good fit for that program. You get started by visiting restaurantstrategypodcast.com schedule and yes, that link is in the show notes Now. Are you tired of juggling schedules? Tired of tracking hours or worrying about HR compliance? Or what about dealing with last minute no shows? Well, it's time to say goodbye to the headaches and hello to Time Forge. It's a labor management solution designed for the fast paced world of restaurants with product offerings ranging from recruitment to retention for your team members. This is perfect for what we are talking about. Time Forge is the real deal With Time Forge can simplify employee scheduling with automated AI schedules based on sales, weather and other events. You can track attendance and labor costs in real time, keeping up with complex labor laws like fair work week and meal penalties. You can recruit staff who live near your stores from or more than 11 million hourly job seekers. You can pay employees their wages and tips on a daily basis after every single shift. You can communicate proactively with your staff using messaging or surveys. And that's not all. Time Forge integrates seamlessly with most POS systems, giving you full visibility into labor and sales performance and suggesting when you should staff up or staff down. Whether you manage one location or dozens, Time Forge saves you time, money and stress so you can focus on what really matters, delivering exceptional service and growing your business. Thousands of restaurants already trust Time Forge. Why not yours? Visit timeforged.com restaurantstrategy today to see how they can help your team run like clockwork. Yes, that link is also in the show notes.
[00:04:39] Okay, so we're not talking about training. We're not talking about managing. We're not talking about developing your team. We're just talking about how we get better hiring practices. We're talking about how you get better at finding people and bringing them on board. I've talked about some of this stuff over the years. I haven't talked about it all condensed into one area. That's what we're going to do today. There are seven or eight bullet points that I want you to internalize over the course of the Next, let's say 15 or 20 minutes. Again, these episodes are mercifully short, straight to the point. Short and sweet. I promise. Better Hiring Practices it begins Number one. The first one here is figuring out how to write better Job listings. Do not make your job listing look like a boring old job listing like all the other jobs out there, right? So if you go to interview for some Big corporate job. I, I don't know why they build their listings in a, in a really boring way with just tons of words and bullet points and all of that. Nobody has time for that, certainly not in the restaurant industry. So what happened? What starts to happen is that all the corporate job listings look exactly the same. And then restaurants want to seem more official. So then they copy and paste a, an official corporate HR garbage job listing and then somebody else copies the restaurant down the street. And then so we all get job listings that look exactly the same. I would strongly urge you to figure out a way to stand out, make your job listing more interesting than anything else out there. Because I'm guessing your restaurant is an interesting place to work. So start off right, put your best foot forward, make a good first impression. Do not make your job listing look like all the others. Here's what I mean. Most job listings have like the, you know, the requirements for employment. The responsibilities is the second section and the third section at the bottom is like what you get, right? Compensation, benefits, hours, etc. Etc. Right? What you need to be able to do this job, what your responsibilities will be on a day to day basis at this job, and then why you might want this job. And what I strongly recommend is you tip that upside down. You, you literally start with the third part first and if you get to the second and first part, fine, but you might not even need to do that. By that I mean you have to think about what is going to perk somebody up. Nobody wants to hear about the job requirements that they need. Nobody wants to hear about all the stuff you're going to make them do. They want to know what's in it for them. What am I going to get out of this? And then I'll think about whether I've got the prerequisite, you know, the requisite experience or the, you know, the skill set to be able to do it. And I'll look at what you want to make me do and I'll determine whether what I get is worth what I have to give. That's how a transaction works. What I strongly urge you to do is do like a top five or a top 10, right? Here are the five reasons why you might love working at this restaurant. And then list them, right? And don't sugarcoat it. If there are things that aren't great about it, then make sure you highlight that, right? I've done job listings where it's like, here are five reasons why you, you will love working at this restaurant and here are five Reasons why you may not love working at this restaurant. And maybe it's like, hey, we need everybody all hands on deck. Every holiday, every weekend, you have to say, right, you are going to be required to work every weekend and every holiday. Those are where you're going to make a lot of money, for example. But that's going to be a requirement, right? So I would lead with that. What are the reasons? Right? We're a very busy restaurant. You're going to have, you know, you're going to have tons of hours, great pay, you know, we're going to teach you a ton. There's room for growth. You get benefits, you get whatever it is they get. Lead with that. I strongly urge you to figure out how to write better job listings. Do not make your job listings look like everything else out there. I think we can fix this across the board, right? Number two, promote your listings. Promote your job openings in more places. Don't just put them on the job listings board, but put the put signage in store, right? Put a flyer, put a table tent, put a sign at the counter, send emails about it. That's okay. Who better to hire than somebody who already knows your product, knows your resume, restaurant loves your restaurant. You'd be amazed at how many people would come work for you. And they're already drinking the Kool Aid, right? So promote your openings in more places, in store. Emails, do it on social media. And then, yes, of course, on the job listings board, it's okay. If you need people, let people know you need them. Number three, you have to jump on the good leads, right? So I've said this before, but I just want to say it in this whole thing, right? In this whole conversation. When you put a job listing out and you get somebody submitting an inquiry, putting their, their resume, sending their resume to you, do not. And you can write this in stone. Do not respond via email. It's easy and it's lazy and you will lose the very best candidates. When you get a resume that comes in and makes you go, whoa, you pick up the phone, that's the first thing you do. Hey, Sally, I just got your. I just got your resume. Do you have a few minutes to chat?
[00:09:48] That's what you should do. Now. If you pick up the phone and call them and they don't answer, leave a voicemail. Hey, Sally, I just got your resume. This looks awesome. I really, I would love a chance to talk with you. Just a couple of questions for you so I can get to know you. Give me a call back at this Number I'm also going to send you an email as well. Then you hang up the phone and send the email that you were going to send. Hey Sally, just got your, just got your resume. I actually left you a voicemail, but I figured I would send you an email as well. Here are the things that I'd love to talk to you about. Please give me a call back or simply respond to this email. Right, that's it. Jump on the good leads. Every time you hit reply, they send their resume and you say, hey, just got your resume. It looks good. I would love to find a time to set up an interview you are losing because that person is not just applying to your job, they are applying to 5, 10, 25 jobs in an afternoon. And I can just about promise you first person to pick up the phone and reach them directly is the one who's gonna, is the one who's gonna be able to hire them. Number four. This goes hand in hand with that. This is something I've recommended for a while.
[00:10:55] I think you should scrap interviews, right? For hourly line level employees. So for dishwashers, for porters, for prep cooks, cooks, servers, bussers, runners, bartenders, just scrap interviews. Let's be really clear here and let's be honest with ourselves. We are not hiring rocket scientists. You do not need an MIT degree to be really good at restaurant work, right? There are things you do need and we're going to talk about that when we start talking about interviews. But let's be really clear, right? We do not need to sit down and have a half an hour interview to make sure they're normal. What I strongly recommend is when you do a job listing and you get an email, you pick up the phone and you say, hey Sally, I just got your resume. This looks awesome. I can't wait to talk to you. Let me know the best time to call to that. We can connect or give me a call back at this number, etc. When you get Sally on the phone, just have a conversation with Sally. Just start asking her some questions like this is great. Your, your experience looks really great. So tell me, just so I can understand, what are you looking for next? What made you apply to us? Or are you just applying to a whole bunch of places? You know, was, was ours deliberate or just part of a blanket scheme? There's nothing wrong with either one. But just have a conversation over the course of five or ten minutes on the phone, you're going to begin. That's going to be the beginnings of an interview. You're Just not going to frame it as such. You're not asking them targeted questions or gotcha questions. You're just getting to know them and seeing if they're a normal person. If they seem normal on the phone, say something to the effect of, well, Sally, this is how we do it at our restaurant. We actually don't do formal interviews. What we find is a better way for us to get to know somebody is just bring them in for an observation trail, right? So we'd like to bring you in on a busy night and have you stick around for maybe three, four hours so you can see what we're all about. That will act as an interview. And really your first training shift, tell me, are you available on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday night this week and then have them come in. And so when Sally comes in then, right, you're obviously going to tell, hey, Sally, please wear the following thing, right? Wear all black or wear jeans and a T shirt or whatever it is for your place, right? Tell them when to come in, when, and they come in. When they come in, be there to receive them, right? Be there to receive them and make sure they feel welcome. Say, hey, Sally, great to see you. Absolutely. Listen, I want to pair you up with somebody. You're just going to be trailing that person, you know, shadow them all day, the entire shift. And what happens is you're going to be here from 6 to 9 and then at 9, 9, 15, somewhere in there, I'd love for you and I to go back to the office and just sit there and I'd love to get your impression of, of the night, the restaurant, the people, you know, what you thought, right? What happens is that at the end of the meal or at the end of the shift, the three hour training shift, one of the things I always recommend too is you feed them, say, hey, here's the deal. We always bring people in for a training shift. It's just an observation. We find that's the best way we can get to know each other. So come in at this time, you're gonna observe for a while, then we'll let you pick something off the menu. You'll sit and eat so you can see really what we do here. And then afterwards we'll sit and chat for about 10 or 15 minutes and, and we'll see where we're at at that point. If this is something you feel like is a good fit and you want to move forward with training, right, that's what you do. Whether you feed them or not, that's up to you. I Think it's a nice touch and it's nice to be able to sit down and chat with them while they're sitting and eating, while they're enjoying what I hope is very delicious food.
[00:14:20] Do not think you need to bring them in for a formal interview. It's not rocket science. You're not hiring a new lawyer for your organization. You're hiring a waiter, a busser, a cook. You can learn quite a bit from having them just be on on property for three or four hours, right? That's the beginning of this conversation, right? We have to do better job listings. We have to promote in a bunch of different places.
[00:14:46] Don't be embarrassed to utilize your marketing channels. To do that. You gotta jump on good leads with a phone call. And I think you gotta scrap interviews, just have them come in for an observation. That's the beginning of the conversation. We're gonna round out the conversation in just a few minutes. After a word from another sponsor.
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[00:16:41] Okay, so we're talking about our people. We're not talking about how to manage them, develop them, train them. We're just talking about how we find them them onboarded. Right? We're talking about better hiring practices. And if ours is a people business, which it is, I wish we would be more intentional about the way that we find and ultimately persuade people to come be a part of the thing that we've built. Right. We talked about writing better job listings. We talked about all the different ways you can promote your openings using your different marketing channels. I talked about how to jump on good leads with a phone call, not a lazy email back. And I was suggesting that you should scrap interviews. I just don't think they're that important for managers. Yeah, maybe. But I gotta tell you, even with managers, if I see a good resume and I've had a good initial conversation over five or 10 minutes over the phone, usually even for that, I'll bring them in and say, hey, listen, before we sit down and do a big, you know, do a big conversation, do a big interview, I'd love for you to just come in and observe. Let's see if you even like it here. Before we go through all the formalities of like, tell me about your history and this and that, what are you looking for and what do you, you know, where do you see yourself going in five or ten years and all that. Let's just bring and see if you even like it here. So I will say, even for managers, I found this incredibly productive. So now let's finish the conversation here when it comes to interviews. And again, you've now heard my feeling on interviews. I think for most hourly line level employees, you don't need a formal interview. For managers, I think you will. I think you want to understand where they came from, how they were trained, how they think.
[00:18:17] I think you're going to want to know all of that. But here's, here's the biggest thing, right? Here's the biggest thing that I want to say about the interview process. You've got to ask questions that help you see, number one, whether this person has at least the base knowledge needed to succeed in this role. And number two, you need to see if they have the capacity to learn, right?
[00:18:41] Number one, if they have the base knowledge that you need to see that you know that they're going to need to succeed. And number two, the capacity to learn. Now, that being said, if you need a bartender with experience, if you need a bartender who just knows a lot of drinks, if you need a server that needs a base, you know, a certain amount of food knowledge, then you got to give them like a food. Food test just to see where they're at. But otherwise, otherwise, I think you can teach most of that. And I think the very best restaurants are really good teaching. Hospitals are really good at giving people the things they need to know. And Danny Meyer talked about this in book Setting the Table. Right. He said he was. He calls it the 51 percenters, right? I don't need people to be perfect, polished, all of that. I can teach people about food and wine and beer and spirits. I can teach them the proper way to serve and clear a dish. I can talk to them. I can teach them these things. And his organization is really good at teaching those. But he needs to know which people have the capacity to learn the things that he knows. He needs to teach them. And that's ultimately what you need to figure out. Who has habits that will never be able to be broken, who's stuck in their own ways, who has ego. All of that you've got to filter out, and you got to find the people who you can work with who are going to listen and do it your way. Because I assume you've given a great deal of thought to what you do, how you do it, and why you do it that way. So you need to find the people who can be molded, right? When you ask questions, and you will have to ask questions, you should, in any good conversation, should go back and forth. I want you to focus your questions on the present and the future rather than on the past, right? By that, I mean, let's figure out what they're running toward rather than what they're running from, right? So instead of saying, hey, you know, why are you. Why are you leaving? Why are you leaving your current restaurant? Right. Or why did you leave your last restaurant? Instead of that saying, I assume there was a reason why you left your last restaurant. Tell me what you're looking for at your next position.
[00:20:52] What happens is we start framing the conversation positively, right? Rather than asking, well, I really didn't like this, that, or my managers were blah, blah, blah. That's the kind of answers you're going to get when you talk about the last place.
[00:21:05] But when you start talking about the future, what are you looking in the next place? You get hope and optimism and it's a constructive conversation, right? They are building something. They are actively going to seek Something else out. The last thing was no longer working for them for the following reasons, for whatever reasons. And so they are looking for X, Y, and Z in the next thing. I promise you, when you start framing all your questions like that, it will change the nature of. It'll change the culture of your place. It will get people thinking constructively, thinking optimistically, hopefully all of that, and it'll. It'll just wipe out all that negativity. So you obviously have to ask the questions, you know, to. To determine if they have the capacity to learn and if they have the base amount of knowledge needed and all of that. But when you're trying to figure out if this person is right for you, I strongly urge you to spend more time talking about the present and the future rather than the past.
[00:22:05] Here's the last thing I want to talk about. I have talked about this a little bit over time. This is an old Jack Welch idea, right? This idea that you should always be leveling up. I used to call it the leapfrog. Like the leapfrog method, right. There's a philosophy around employment, employment in any industry, at any job, right. That we can always find somebody better than our worst person. And when you do that, right, so let's say you have 10 servers on staff.
[00:22:33] I'm guessing you got three rock stars, three duds, and then four in the middle. Right? And so rather than be stuck with the three duds, I should. I would always be interviewing for somebody that's better than a dud. Because if you're not interviewing all the time, and I do think you should be interviewing all the time, I think it should be. It's a. It's a meaningful part of your work, of your work week. It doesn't have to be a huge amount, but it's one of the most important tasks you'll do every single week as an owner, as an operator. Right? Because how do you know whether the All Star is looking for a new job unless you're interviewing? What happens is we always interview. Oftentimes in the restaurant industry, we only interview when we're stuck. Oh, my God, that person showed up drunk. I had to fire her. And now we just need somebody really quick. Quick. So you put. Post a quick job listing. You get five or six people in the front door over the following days. And, you know, you got to pick one of them. So you're stuck with whoever walks in the front door. And since your schedule is now has this gaping hole, you need to fill it quickly. And I know this happens with servers Busers, cooks, managers, all the way up and down your workforce. A better way to do it is to hire when you don't necessarily need someone. 1. So I would hold at least one or two interviews for every single position in your restaurant every single week. And if that sounds like a lot, I promise you it's the best. 90 minutes to 2 hours you will spend in your week. Your manager, right, your general manager, let's say, is probably there 5055 hours a week to spend two hours of their 55 doing this, which is going to make your place better and better and better.
[00:24:18] It's ludicrous that we wouldn't do it. All right, so, yeah, it is. It's two hours out of your week, but two hours out of your 50 or 55 hours, I think it's a very good use of your time. The way you do it is you just always bring people in. There's a couple of things that happen here. Number one, when you see a rock star walk in, I know you're going to do what I used to do. You're going to go, man, that person really levels us up. He's better than 5 of my current servers right now. Now. So what happens is I bring that person on and I lose the person at the bottom. I am leveling up my team every single week. Second thing that happens is when you get a steady stream of people coming in, the rest of your staff sees that they know. They know that their jobs aren't for life, that they have to produce, that they have to do the things that are required. They have to show up on time, they have to be ready to work, have to be in uniform, they have to have their stations ready. They have to know their menu. They have to know and all of that. And if they ever slip from that and you have to pull them aside and say, hey, listen, I'm looking at your job slipping. You are consistently late, you are disheveled looking, you don't know the menu as well as I need you to.
[00:25:29] You're always slow on your prep, your misa's, never set at your station. Whatever it is, when you have a conversation or two with them, it's not you banging your head against the wall going like, oh, I can't get this person to do it. You just say very calmly, this is what I need you to do. And if that can't happen, then I need to know that their actions will show you what you need to do. What happens is they see that you're for real, that you're not just, you know, blowing smoke, that you want a very efficient, well run organization and you're willing to do the things to get that.
[00:26:06] So every now are you going to be replacing people every single week? No, probably not. Some people will come in and they're just not as good as the current team. Fine. At least, you know, but other people will come in and they will definitely be better. And you'll be happy to cut someone loose to bring somebody else in, because the person you're going to cut loose is probably somebody you've had to talk to over and over and over and over. So that's really important. Finally, the last thing that happens is you start building a filing cabinet. You have a bullpen. So somebody comes in, they're really great. You say, perfect, I'm going to talk to my team, might keep this on. I don't know if we're going to, if we're going to add somebody to the team right now or in the coming weeks. And obvious, obviously, if you get another position, let us know or I wish you luck. But when we have the position open, I'll definitely reach out. And then what happens is maybe it's three months down the line or six months down the line, you go to your filing cabinet and you pick out the person you love and you say, hey, I don't know if you remember me, but you interviewed for a job at my restaurant and we didn't have an opening at that point, but we do now. So maybe you already found a job. But if in the off chance you haven't found something or you're not happy there, I wanted to reach out and see if you'd be interested in taking a job here. You'd be amazed. Every once in a while you'll get people who say, yeah, no, I already took a job and I'm actually really happy here, but thank you for reaching out. Perfect. It's a win, win. Fine. Good luck. I'm just gonna keep you on. I'm gonna keep your name on file for the future. Is that okay? Perfect. But mostly what you find is that somebody says, oh, you know what, I did get a job, but I don't love it here. I really want it. Your job, they will leave that job to come to you. That's what great players will do. If you present yourself as the kind of place that's always looking out great players, you will attract great players.
[00:27:58] This, hopefully you are seeing should be upending your hiring practices. Every single one of these seven points are suggesting new ways, better ways More efficient, more effective ways of finding great people, right? We've talked a lot about training and managing and how we develop our people. I just wanted to spend an episode talking about how we actually bring people on board. This is so, so crucial. So again, the seven points. Number one, write better job listings, right? There's a better. Don't make it look like all the rest of them.
[00:28:32] Actually make your place stand out. You are marketing your place to potential employees. Number two, promote your job openings in more places than just the job listings board. Use social media, use email, use in store collateral. Number three, jump on those good liens, good leads. Pick up the phone, call them. Don't just be lazy and send an email. Scrap interviews just haven't come in for an observation trail. You'll get a chance to talk to them before the end of their night. The fourth point, right, is ask questions that will let you see whether, number one, this person has the base amount of knowledge needed to succeed. And number two, whether this person has the capacity to learn. Number six, focus all your questions on present and future, not on the past. So not why did you leave the last place, but what are you looking for in the next place that will reshape the conversation in unimaginable ways. And then finally, I strongly believe you adopt the, you adopt the Jack Welch principle for hiring. You should be interviewing for every position every single week. That's how you know who's out there and that's how you don't miss the all Stars when they're looking for a job every single week. And just even if you don't hire them, you put them in a filing cabinet and you got a strong bullpen. So if you need somebody last minute, you've got a, you got a Rolodex, you've got a, you know, list of resumes for people you can call rather than scrambling, posting a job, interviewing and then just hiring, you know, whatever from whatever the people walked in the door. Those seven points will help you make a better restaurant, will level up your team. That's all I got for today, guys. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much and I will see you next time.
[00:30:50] Sa.
