[00:00:00] Speaker A: Our people are crucial and managing those people becomes a very important job to do. I know we know that, but how do we get better at doing that? That's what today's episode is all about. I'm sitting down with author Jason Brooks to talk about his new book. He's got, I don't know, two plus decades of experience in the industry, a lot of insights to pull from. Don't go anywhere. All that on today's episode of Restaurant Strategy. There's an old saying that goes something like this. You'll only find three kinds of people in the world. Those who see, those who will never see, and those who can see when shown. This is Restaurant Strategy, a podcast with answers for anyone who's looking.
Hey there, thanks for tuning in. My name is Chip Close and this is Restaurant Strategy, a podcast dedicated solely to helping you build a more product profitable restaurant. Each week I leverage my 20 plus years in the industry to help you build that more profitable and sustainable business. I also work directly with restaurant owners and operators from all over the world in my P3 mastermind program. So if you are generating revenue, if you've got a lot of customers who love what you do, a lot of loyal customers, you've been around for a while but struggle to generate consistent, predictable 20% returns, then I want you to set up a call with me. Go to restaurantstrategypodcast.com schedule set up call with me or someone from my team. We will learn about you and your restaurant, you will learn about the program, and we'll see if you're a good fit for the program. There's absolutely no pressure. That call is 100% free. But if this sounds like you, if this is something you're struggling with, then we want to talk to you again. RestaurantStrategyPodcast.com/schedule and as always, that link is in the show notes.
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Now, as I said at the top, my guest on today's show is a guy named Jason Brooks. He is a coach, he is a speaker and is the author of a brand new book. We're going to get into all of that over the course of this conversation. We're talking about people, talking about management, talking about leadership. Jason, welcome to the show.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: Oh, Chip, I am super excited. Thank you for having me. You have been someone that I've been listening to for quite some time now. You're amazing. I'm honored.
[00:03:19] Speaker A: Thank you. I appreciate it. You know, we're both serving the same audience in the same way, which is means taking your experience and the insights that you've picked up along the way and sharing them with people who might not have had the privilege of working with the people that you've worked with, of working in the places that you've worked in. That's how I, I said there's nothing magical that I, that I, that I know all I did was learn. And I sort of regurgitate it, maybe repackage it in a way. But the whole idea is right where we have such an opportunity that, to help people, help people do better and make more money and take care of more people.
So just in the, in the little bit, a little while that we've known each other, I know that that's true for you as well.
For context here before we get into the book, because I want to spend a, spend a fair amount of time talking about the book because the subject matter, everything that I've learned about it is sort of right up my alley, really resonates with me. And especially apropos with, I think, where we're at in the life cycle of our industry. But for context, for the listeners, talk a little bit about your background, how you came to hospitality, what you've been doing and what led you to this moment and why you decided to write a book.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Oh, man. My origin story is so similar to so many within this industry. I started banging out dishes at the age of 15 at a mom and pop seafood restaurant in Fayetteville, N.C. age 15. And to be honest, my very first job, I didn't even tell my mother I was actually working in a restaurant part time. And then one day, after about three weeks, I brought home some groceries. She came home, opened up the fridge and we had groceries.
So she's like, where in the world did you get this food from. And I'm like, mom, I promise I didn't do anything wrong.
I got a job working. But, yes, I am a restaurant lifer, you know. You know, start. And again, started out washing dishes, moved on to pantry, then on to some salads, and then onto grill and saute. And I've been through the operational ranks. I like to say. I like to say that I've seen the Mona Lisa painted 20 different ways because I've worked for over 20 brands and, you know, some of them are. Are pieces of art, some of them are just pieces. But I've definitely seen everyone's take of what is perfection in our industry. And I think that that's what we all take from when we get into this role of hospitality is what is it that absolutely. That works. What is close to perfection and what is. That's exactly what I don't want to be like whenever I get to that level. So.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Which as a coach, and this is something you and I have in common, I assume, because that resonates with me. I've learned just as much from the failures as I have from the success stories. And in fact, the best restaurants that I worked at when I was coming up were not the ones that succeeded. They couldn't get out of their own way because they didn't understand certain principles. Likewise, or alternately, some of the most successful restaurants succeeded despite themselves because they weren't the best. They were mediocre, but they did a couple of key things right. And so what I try really hard to do is teach the members of my mastermind, the clients that I work with, how to do the best of both worlds, how to do what you can do exceptionally better than anyone else, but how you can put the safeguards in place like some of the bigger groups have. How can you put a little bit of infrastructure so that you can have the best of both worlds, so you can do something really great and succeed while doing it, which is easier said than done, for sure. But that's sort of what I've dedicated myself to doing.
It sounds like you came up in the ranks in back of house. And I know you wrote a book about leadership and about management. Did you ever tip over into front of the house, or is all your experience in back of house for front.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Of house only when I shifted into manager. You know, I did start out as a as or in the back of house, but as a manager, I've been a bar manager, a service manager, and then, of course, shifting up to general manager. And one of the Things that helped me to understand hospitality was shifting into a bar manager role. Of course, I was good with numbers, I was good with people. But making that connection in seconds is what I learned from the person that worked behind the bar. They had a way of being your best friend, and you knew nothing about them, but you felt like you could tell them everything. So that part of the front of house, that's what really helped me connect the food and the experience with the person that's sitting in the seat. Bartenders have a true unspoken art. No, I think that people now know what that art is, but still, they deserve more props on that hospitality side than almost anywhere else within. Within the restaurant.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: It's sort of like coaching, right? They always say, as coaches, you don't have to have all the answers, but you just have to know the next best question to ask, because your job is not to give all the answers, which it's very easy to be able to do that. But then after a while, what you're doing is you're creating the restaurant you want to create, or I'm creating the restaurant I want to create, rather than helping the client create the restaurant that they're really trying to create. And that's a constant process, even with me and the other coaches who work for me, where I'm coaching them. And I say do as I say, not as I do, because I'm still learning how to do this. But we just have to get really good at asking the next question. And I think bartenders are just really good at asking the next question because it takes a. It's exhausting to talk yourself. Much easier to just ask a question. I think that has to do a lot with management as well, at least from my perspective of management, right. That the way we think of managers or even leaders is that, you know, leaders tell the people below them what to do. And I think that's wrong. And I think. I think we're learning globally, not just in this industry, but globally, that that is wrong, that people don't like to be told what to do. They like to have a shared vision or a common goal and then give them buy in to figure out, hey, this is where we're going. We need to get there. I've got ideas on how to get there, but really, I leave it to you. How do you think the best way is to get there? And that's something that I didn't know early in my career and it took a long time to get. And I still see a lot of managers struggle that I see A lot of restaurant owners struggle with that. When I run my mastermind program, I say, you know this, listen, listen, y'all, we're doing a lot here. But more than anything else, this is executive coaching. I'm helping the members be better leaders, you know, and I'm. I constantly read leadership books and, you know, take classes and listen to talks and lectures and travel the country to do that to. To level up so I can help my people be better leaders. But asking the next question or inviting, really, it's inviting buy in, right? A bartender to a patron at the bar is inviting buy in. Hey, what's going on?
You in the neighborhood? How was your day? Right? Like, it just starts as simply as that. And we don't, we don't do that enough.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: You know, that that is one of the key pieces as to why I wrote this book is one of the keys, because I don't have chapter. I actually have 10 keys. And key number five is leading with the right mindset, managing versus leading versus coaching. And one of the things that I try to help dispel is that it isn't a one versus the other, although it says it within that key title. It is knowing when to use managing versus leading versus coaching in the right situation to get you the best outcome. Because you can use managing all day long and get a good outcome. You can use leading all day long and get a good outcome. But how do you know when is the right time to use managing or leading or coaching to get the best outcomes?
[00:12:01] Speaker A: So let me interject right here and for the sake of the listeners and for my knowledge, how do you define those things? How do you differentiate coaching from managing from leading?
[00:12:12] Speaker B: Managing within the.
Within. The definition is having a group of people stay within the guardrails to reach a certain point by a certain time. That's what we do for the most part of our day, almost every single day, we manage. And there's nothing wrong with managing. Managing is a good thing. It's not evil. It is making sure that we stay within budgets, within guidelines to hit that certain point by a certain time. Time. Leading. Leading is whenever. The times that we typically see leadership is when a group of people don't see what a next step should be or could be. And you're helping to paint a picture without every brushstroke of what the next step is. And then everyone says, aha, I get it now. It was in front of my face. I didn't get to see it. And that's where that leadership kicks in. Now coaching is the mastery of small groups or even of one on ones. Coaching is knowing what the person's strengths, what their weaknesses are, what their challenges are and where they want to get to by when. And then you're helping to create a certain rhythm in, in order for them to get to that point. I, I do like to tell this story. So my, my, my youngest son, he's 16, he plays sports. All right? He's been playing sports since the age of seven. At the, at the age of six, you can start playing Pop Warner football. At, at this point, it is someone's parent coaching you a few hours per week on some basics, just running around the field, having fun. Then you get to middle school, there's a actual coach there teaching you some basic skills and drills. All right? Now if you choose to do Pop Warner, which is off season, and then school, your child is being coached seven out of 12 months of the year. Let's say they're just that good. They've taken on high school. In high school, you can still play 7v7 or Pop Warner football and play high school sports. But in high school football, it's a team of coaches helping you to coach. Okay, now say again. Your child is just that great. Let's say it's even basketball. In basketball, when you get to college, you have a team of people coaching you nine months out of the year. There is no more off season, let's say basketball coaching.
Now if you then get signed to the pros in basketball, there's 82 games in a season. Some of these players have been playing sports since the age of 5, getting coached 9 out 7 or 9 out of 10 months of the year.
And in the game, there's still someone on the sidelines yelling when to press, when to fall back, who to cover. And on every single off play, they're bringing everyone over, even the players on the bench, to talk through what the next play is. But in our industry, whenever we talk about coaching, it's like, ah, I don't need to coach my team.
They've been together for the past six months. I pay them $15 per hour. They better know what to do.
How we look at coaching in our industry has to change. If we have players with a ball and a hoop getting coached totally for 75% of their life for 75% of the year and is still being coached even when you're on the bench. And we feel like we don't have to, that's what we have to change.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah. So how does. So then talk to me, go Back to your, some of your experience then, because obviously this is not something you just came up with in a vacuum. This is something you believe and I assume folded into your management style. So what does coaching then look like? Because I think we understand management, I think we understand leadership. Right. Leadership is vision, setting a goal. Right. And management is making sure that we're doing the things we need to do to reach that goal. You said you know, achieving a certain thing by a certain time. So I understand how those work and obviously as a coach myself, I understand the value of coaching and obviously you do. But talk to me about what that looks like in a day to day or week to week basis in a restaurant or how it was for you.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: The very first thing I learned about coaching was working at a large, fast, casual brand. It was O Charlie's. And at that point there was a general manager named Mark. And Mark was the mayor of four walls.
He knew every single person. He knew what their strengths were, what their weaknesses were, who to lean when it hit the fan. And the reason why he knew that is because he took one on ones seriously. So whenever I get asked what is coaching, where does it really start? Within our industry it is making the time for one on ones with your team.
We have time to dump information onto our team multiple times per day throughout the whole year. How many times do we make time to listen and to connect with the people that we work with to find out how we can help make them better. That's where coaching first starts. And I think for both you and I, that's where we define how do we create time and create the space for someone to really dive into what's going on within their world and then we can help them reach that next step. Similar to your master masterminds, but you have multiple people in within similar situations aiming for some of the same goals, which makes it even stronger. But that one core thing.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: In our, in our industry is the one on ones.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: So how often do you like to do one on ones with let's say line level hourly employees, Your, your servers, your bartenders, your bussers, your line cooks, when you were in that position or what do you recommend people do?
[00:18:54] Speaker B: This is where some people will say, man, you are crazy. But weekly, weekly, weekly and every single week at the same time, I use the exact same structure and they know exactly how it's going to start. I'm going to speak for 30% of the time and they're going to speak for 70. And it is my time to find out what's going on within their world. But weekly, I feel that the weekly target helps to build that connection of what we need for them to be doing the right thing when we're not in the building.
[00:19:35] Speaker A: Okay, and is this, I assume you as a general manager are not doing them. All these get. These get delegated because I think you're right. I think a lot of people, if they haven't turned off the episode yet, but they certainly think you're crazy. They certainly think you're crazy. And I hope most people kept it on because I think this is interesting. I think this is counterintuitive to.
It stands against reason because it's hard to do. But I hear what you're saying and I think most people will at least appreciate what you're saying. So then how do you do this? Does this get delegated to your management team or do you take it upon yourself to meet with everyone every single week?
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Great question. It should be my direct reports only if I'm the general manager. I have five assistant managers within various areas without throughout the restaurant, bar, service, host, kitchen. My one on ones are with them weekly. Their one on ones with their team should be weekly as well.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Great. How do you, I love this line of conversation. How do you as a general manager provide oversight to make sure that your direct reports, the service director, the executive chef, the. How do you make sure that. That the conversations they're having with their direct reports are as productive and fruitful as you hope they are?
[00:21:04] Speaker B: You know, there is a, a trust factor that we have to have in place, but in our industry systems is what really makes things work. And one of those systems are a one on one tem and people sometimes take a template as we're telling them that they don't know what they're doing. When it comes down to a checklist or a template or a system. It's understanding that every single human being has things that are on their mind every single day. Whether it be their spouse, bills, kids. There's several things that are happening within their mind that can keep us thinking about something else. That template or system helps us to come back to what are the top four or five things that I need to make sure that, that I do cover and then I can add on whatever I would like to add on. So to answer that, it is a one on one template. That one on one template is actually filled out by by hand. I don't suggest a digital one. I know we are moving very digital very quickly these days. I think that though sometimes a digital One on one makes it feel like you're in court. So having something handwritten makes it feels a bit more authentic, like I'm not in trouble.
[00:22:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. You'll find that most of the time. And I'm a big proponent of technology and sort of the way we're moving and all of that.
But to brush against that or to, you know, to juxtapose some real tactile, you know, analog pieces to everything we do, I think, I think that's the key of using so much digital. Like digital provides efficiency so that we can handwrite this thing. Okay, so you hand write this thing, you fill out this, this form, this, this template every single week when you meet with your bartender, let's say, right? So you fill out this thing, you sit down, you say you talk for 30% of the time, they're going to talk for 70% of the time.
How do you come away from those? Because, you know, in coaching so much of it is we can talk a good game, but how do you, do you set action items coming out of there, you know, a path forward, performance improvement plan? I mean, how do you, from week to week, how do you, how do you mark that and how do you keep forward momentum?
[00:23:28] Speaker B: I think that this is where we should keep two things separated. There is one aspect of us that are looking how do we measure performance? Performance and we have ipps, personal performance plans, development plans, things like that, that are based on numbers, stats, sales, food, cost, things like that. But then we have our, our way of building our connection with our team. And I think that when we separate the one on one from how much that they're selling or how much waste that they have, we're building that safe space for them to then connect with us and us with them. I like Ted Lasso. Ted Lasso does a really good job of democratic coaching and holistic coaching, finding a way to make a better person. And when you create a better person, you're also helping to then create a better kicker, a better forward, a better quarterback, a better saute chef. Yes, we still have performance guidelines that we do have to hit, but at the same time, when you work on the building better people, and that's what I feel that one on one time is for, is for helping to create that better person and coach them along the way of the struggles or the celebrations that they are going through, that's what that time is then reserved for.
[00:25:06] Speaker A: So talk to me. And I'm sure I've thought a lot about this over the last 18 months. And I thought about it a lot. I've talked about it a lot. I should say the unique thing about our industry is that most people don't want to be in our industry.
There are, I'll say, 20 to 30%. I think it's probably closer to 20%.
We can say it's 30%, but somewhere between 20 and 30% are desperate to be in this industry. They went to school for it. They started after it at a very, very young age. Again, I think it's 20 to 30%. I think those people are the minority.
The vast majority of people in our industry took the back door or the side door. And that resonates.
That resonates with me because that was me. I took the back door in and the first several restaurants I worked in, I mean, I hated it. I hated it because it was a reminder, right. I came to New York to be an actor, so I went to theater school. I came to New York to be an actor. What do you do as an out of work actor? You get a job in restaurants. Restaurants were the job in between gigs for years for me. And every time I worked, stepped back into a restaurant, it was a reminder of my failure. Right. Like I wasn't doing what I set out to do. And it took a long time for me to reconcile that and to realize that I was surrounded with incredibly creative people, that I was good at this, that I was being given opportunities that I shouldn't have been given because I presented myself as both capable and knowledgeable and all of that. Right, Right. But I think a lot of people fall into that, right? That people don't necessarily aspire to be a porter or a dishwasher. They're doing that because that's what, that's the job they can get and that's the job they need to do to put food on the table. Likewise, there are out of work actors, dancers, musicians who wait tables or bartend. There are teachers who wait tables as a second job. There are, you know, students who get jobs during the summer or, you know, to put themselves through school.
All of that I've pretty much. I've pretty much done. Right. I've worked a second job to be able to pay for things my family needed. I worked a restaurant job as a day job, you know, in between gigs. I waited tables while I was a student in college to pay for college. So what do you do with that? How do you coach those people? Because I know you know what I'm talking about.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:27:29] Speaker A: So there are two different kinds of people in the restaurant. How do you reconcile that? How do you get them to be excited about meeting with you every week and talking about their personal and professional development? How do you come at that?
[00:27:40] Speaker B: No, you, you are spot on. Even in my history, I fought the restaurant industry so hard, my wife kept telling me, jason, you know, you are good at leading people. Just do it. And I think that, that the art of assimilation is something that we have to focus on within our industry and every single one. It's knowing how to present, coming on board of a company and not having to be cookie cutter. I think most people run from the industry because they feel like they have to change who they are and they feel like they are no longer authentic. And then once you realize, okay, I can actually be me and I can lead people, that's when that trigger flips for most people within our industry of, okay, this is actually good. You said it just earlier. Of most people don't aspire to wash dishes or to make salads or to run plates to a table. Most people don't aspire to be data entry people. Most people don't aspire to work behind a desk and say hello, welcome to Brooks Corporation.
But once we find out what we're good at, our industry does a great job of training people at a very young age of how to lead million dollar businesses. And when we can look past that and say, what am I actually good at? When it comes with dealing with people and leading, that's when that assimilation kicks in. So to answer your question, we have to get better within our industry of teaching people how to come on board and remain their authentic self. When we can do that, that's whenever things can shift.
[00:29:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So talk to me. So their authentic self playing devil's advocate is, I hate this job. I don't want to be here.
How do you. How do you turn that? Or how do you.
Because there were days where I was just like, I hate it, I hate it here. I don't want to be here. And I still knew how to flip the switch and do what I was supposed to do. And I knew the menu and I knew I was good with people and I was good at. But like my authentic self was like, screw this place.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: This sucks.
[00:30:10] Speaker A: Right?
[00:30:10] Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: Thousands of restaurants across the country use Kickfin to send instant cashless tip payouts directly to their employees bank accounts the second their shift ends. It's a really simple solution to what's become a really big problem because let's face it, paying out cash tips to your workers Day after day, shift after shift is kind of a nightmare. Tedious tip distribution takes managers away from work that matters. It's hard to track payments, which leads to accounting and compliance headaches. Plus, cash tip outs create the perfect opportunity for theft. And there's never enough cash on hand to pay out the tips. So managers are constantly making bank runs. Bottom line, there's never been a secure, efficient way to tip out. Until now. Meet Kickfin. Kickfin is an easy to use software that sends real time cashless tip payouts straight to your employees. Bank accounts 247, 365. Tipping out with Kickfin gives managers and operators hours back in their day. It makes reporting a breeze and protects your business from mistakes and theft. And guess what? Employees love it. So it becomes a really powerful recruiting tool. Best of all, restaurants can have Kickfin up and running overnight. Employees can enroll in seconds. No hardware, no contracts, no setup fees. Get in touch today for a personalized demo and see how restaurants and bars across the country are tipping out with Kickfinders. Visit kickfin.com demo and that link will also be in the show notes.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: I mean, there are definitely places that the culture, there isn't one to where people walk in and just want to do what they're doing. So that is a very tough question. Trying to remain authentic in an environment that's not allowing you to really grow, spread, be a leader. It's tough. We know that not every restaurant has the right environment in order to propel people forward.
And that's okay because whenever we create the better ones, then they can come work for us. No, but it is a challenge. I don't have the right answer for that question, but it is about the culture that is being created within that environment to help people decide of what they want to do with their life.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: So talk to. Let's talk. It's a great segue into let's talk about culture. How do you define culture? How do you think about culture?
[00:32:42] Speaker B: How I define culture is what is going on when you're not there?
You know what, what, what is going on that everyone else is making a habit of within. With. Within that business, not just within that restaurant, even within your household. What is that repeatable thing? It's almost like religion that every Sunday, every Thursday, every time at five, every time at three, no matter who's in the building, whether you're there by yourself or there's 200 people that is on shift, what is exactly happening and when? That is the culture of what's going on in any business I think that's really good.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: I can't define it. And I struggled for years to try to define it, which is why I'm really fascinated. Why I ask people the best answer I ever heard, which syncs right with that. And I give you this and steal it, run with it, spread it to the. Spread it to everywhere, the corners of the world. Seth Godin, right? Seth Godin, bestselling author, noted public speaker.
He always says the key to marketing, right? Because he's a marketing guy. So the key to marketing is culture. And therefore I define culture as the following seven words. And it's the most important seven words in all of business. So write this down. That's what he says when he, he gives the talk. And he says, people like us do things like this, which is culture, which is religion, which is habit, which is what do they do when you're around. So for me, people like us do things like this. We have to define who the us is and what the things we do. Things like that, right? So people who work at this restaurant always show up on time, always know our menu descriptions, always ready. Like people like us do things like this because it's just what you do here.
And I think the hard part is getting people who don't understand that culture, don't want to necessarily be in that culture, to eventually bend or see the light there. Which is, which is where I see what you're saying about coaching. Really helpful. So it's funny, a lot of times when I talk about training, I say in the industry, we're relatively bad at training.
Training is being shot out of a cannon in our industry. Teaching people everything they need to know, do everything they need to know over the course of five shifts or seven shifts or something like that. Right. And for me, and I learned this from one of the first restaurants ever worked at, is that almost thinking in terms of level one, level two and level three training, Right. Or tier one, Tier two, Tier three. The first one is the seven days, right. And you sort of the way I coach is through systems and goals, setting really clear goals. So what is our goal for level one training? It's to get these people to be good enough to take a station on a busy Saturday night. Right. They're not going to be great, but they're going to be able to survive, they're going to be able to hang. What are all the things we need to teach the new cook on garment or the new bartender or the new, the new busser? What do we need to teach them to be good Enough to survive, right. To handle a station on a busy Saturday night. But then we ignore level two and level three. And I think that's where the key is.
Level two becomes how do we make this new person as good as our best person within the first 90 days? And what happens is that, I mean, I can give you ideas, I can share with you what I've done or what I've seen work, but ultimately then I think this goes back to the coaching thing. It's like, I don't know, you just have to. I think that's the right question to ask. How do we get somebody good enough to take a station in seven days? How do we get somebody good enough to be as good as our best person in the first 90 days? Right. And the thing is, how do we do that? What do we need to do then, you know, or what are the ways that we can do that? And then the last piece, tier three, it really has to do with development, right. And I think that's the piece that you're talking about, right? Which is that how do we develop them as people and as professionals, and how do we continue to make sure. And this is, I think, where we lose sight of, and this is what I have thought about for a while, is that our professional lives exist to support our personal lives. Because if we were independent, I know that because it's true for me, it's true for you, it's true for just about everybody I know.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: If we were independently wealthy, right. I think what would I do? I would travel a lot, I would. I would live in multiple countries, I would golf a lot, I would ski a lot, I would. There's things I would do if I was independently wealthy. Meaning I didn't have to worry about money. I just had it in a big money bin that I could swim in. Right. But I do need money because I'm not independently wealthy. So I work a job, I do something that generates income for me and my family. So my professional life exists to support my personal life. And I think too often we lose sight of that, that one thing exists for another and we don't. And this is the one on one conversation. And I love the idea of weekly one on ones. I'm going to give that a lot of thought. I've never done that many.
But I think you bring up a really good point. The idea is, can we mark time and can we make sure that this professional life here continues to support the goals of the personal life? Meaning I'm in school, I'm out of school. I'm getting married. I want to start a family. I'm looking to put away for retirement. I'm looking to travel more. I want a better work life balance. All of these are things that people are thinking to your point a few minutes ago. Right. There are things that are. That people are thinking all the time. And unless we go and this goes back to the asking. Just ask the question, what's on your mind? Where are you at? What are you, what are you thinking? How can we help you do that? Because sometimes there was a season in my life where I worked seven days a week for about two years as we were preparing for to start a family because we knew we just needed a really good nest egg. And I mean, I worked seven days for about two years and that was that season of life. Now I'm in a different season of life where for me personally, I'm into work life balance. Like I could work harder and make more money. I'm just not interested. Because if I have more money but no time to spend it, it's just not worth it to me.
[00:38:58] Speaker B: So it's not. No.
[00:39:00] Speaker A: But that's for me, there was a time, there was a season in my life when that was not. That was not a reality. And so we all have seasons in our life. And I know this because I can just look to my own life. I'm sure you can look to your own life life. And if we just transpose that onto our people and just say, well, let's try to understand their seasons of life and what they want. Because priorities shift, Right. My priorities at 20 were different. At 30, we're different than at 40. Right. They're wildly different. What I wanted and where I spent my time and my money, what I cared about. Right. So the jobs I took in my 20s were different than the jobs I took in my 30s are different than the jobs than the business that I'm building now in my 40s.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: Correct. Yep.
[00:39:44] Speaker A: It's the same thing with everybody who works at us. And this is where I've given a lot of thought to that. Two different people in the restaurant, right. The people who love it, want to be here and all of that. I think we can do a better job of mapping out a trajectory for them because I think we do a pretty bad job of that. I think we get somebody great and then we just work them to the bone rather than showing them. Here are all the signposts along the way. And then the other people, right. We wonder why we have this revolving door. It's like because they don't want to be here. So let's either find a way to make them happy with the time they're here or at least satisfied or at least understand, I know you don't want to be here, but this is helping you achieve certain goals at the time. And it was a manager that I worked with, I don't know, I guess it was here in New York about a year and a half who helped me see that in not so many words where I went, oh, you're right, this is, this is allowing me to achieve the things that I want to achieve at this season in my life. Not that I called it that, but it was obvious and it was like, hey, listen, look at all the stuff that you are able to do because of this, right? To say nothing of, you know, my ability to be exposed to world class wine and spirits and food and to taste caviar and oysters for the first time in my life.
[00:41:01] Speaker B: That's always nice. Yeah, that's always nice.
[00:41:03] Speaker A: Which by the way, we don't do a good night enough time talking about this. You know, it's funny, I was you. There's a case study, right, about Ritz Carlton, where Ritz Carlton in like the 80s was starting to, to droop as a brand, right? They didn't have sort of the, the huge global footprint that other bigger flags were, were getting. And one of the things they did was realize they were really good at marketing themselves, but they were upper echelon luxury, you know, this ultra premium experience.
But they didn't do a good job of marketing their jobs. And through the 80s and 90s they basically realized like, oh, we've got hotels and I forget the number, we've got hotels in 42 countries. And they didn't realize that to a certain. And it was an outside consultant who came in and basically helped them see it and said, you know, somebody can come here and work at the New York Ritz Carlton for a year and then go work in Beijing for a year or Jakarta for a year or Delhi or they could travel all around the world. And it's not right for everybody, but for somebody at a certain season in their life, that's good experience. That might be an experience and why don't we market that? So in any event, it just, it all goes back to this thing of, of connecting with our people.
Talk to me. So we've got these three, these three hats we wear. The manager, the leader and the coach. And there's a time and a place for all of them. How do you.
When you coach or develop your managers below you, how do you help them?
How do you actually help them see that and do that well, and then I assume it also has to get passed on to the line level employees. So talk to me because this is what I'm really interested in is actually how do we make that thing happen, how do we pass that knowledge along?
[00:42:47] Speaker B: First you have to understand where you sit at in which mindset, because all three are mindsets. A mindset is simply a voice that tells you something in the back of your head. I'm sure you've heard the term the imposter syndrome. You know, whenever you get to a certain point and you're growing and something tells you, oh, you're, you shouldn't be doing this, you aren't good enough, they're going to find out you're some kind of failure. And that's the first time that someone calls you boss or the first time someone calls you a leader or a manager. First it's finding out what mindset that you typically tend to lean more into.
Some of us lean more into a managing mindset and we want to find the system, stick to the system and strictly stay with that system. Systems are great, but systems can sometimes be cold. Cold is good because we can hit books and hit numbers very quickly by making a systematic process. But finding out what mindset that you tend to stay in for the most part of your day and then, and then looking at what's going on whenever there's a challenge. Do I tend to want to find out more about the person?
Do I tend to want to know more about. Well, as a group, should the industry be shifting more towards this? Meaning am I always looking at. For the company as a whole, this is the best option for us to, to take on this question. That's typically your leadership mindset. When it comes down to let me get deeper into the individual, how they're feeling, what they're going through. Typically that's the coaching mindset. When it comes down to the numbers and the systems, you can guess it. That's the managing mindset. Then it's then saying is this the best approach to get to the best outcome? What should the best outcome be for this situation? And that is one of the main keys to, to understanding that managing versus leadership versus Coaching mindset and then stating what do I typ. Fall into. Then looking at different processes throughout your day for, for. For your department, for where you're at as a person, what are some of the things, some of the Challenges you've been faced within the last three months, how did you handle it? What mindset do you think that you were in? And then rating that on a scale of 1 to 5, could I have done that better? If I changed mindset mindsets to xyz, could it have been a better outcome? But it always starts with where do we stay in now? What do I typically lean towards? And what are those three mindsets? What would have been the other options for me to get a better outcome?
[00:45:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that because it sort of describes the sense of agency that we have, that we've got a choice at every intersection, there's a fork in the road and we can go one of three directions. And rather than just leading the way that we've always been leading, talk to me because I want to, I want to wrap things up and I want to, I always ask everybody, all my guests the same five questions. So I want to make sure we leave time for that. But tell me something so, so somebody who's listening to this and says, yeah, okay, I think maybe I can be better at this.
I can be a more intentional leader in my, my, in my place. How do they get started with that? What are the, some easy steps they, they can take down that path so that they can be more intentional in the ways that you're describing?
[00:46:45] Speaker B: Well, I think that the, one of the main things that I typically speak to first is going to be the multi unit manager and the manager, you know, we tend to leave out or not emphasize the training of that multi unit manager and that manager as much as we should. Within my book, one of the main keys that I always lean on is the owner like orientation. And that's key number two. And I bring that up because back when you were asking about the culture aspect and then how do we get people to stay on board? How do we recognize the right people for our business? The owner, like orientation is thinking through how we bring someone on board. Right now typically we, we, they walk in, we have a table set up, it has some uniforms on there, some paperwork, a pen. And then they come in, you ask them if they want something to drink, they have a seat, and then you go through some paperwork, you give them the ten commandments, take them back to a laptop, get them some computer based training, and then put them on one position. And then we hopefully, hopefully after four to six weeks, they then expand out of that one position. But to be honest, that is the wrong way to bring anyone on board, whether a manager, multi unit manager, or dishwasher. Because if you think about it, that table that you bring them to ends up being their new brick table. The only thing that they end up owning for four to six weeks is. Is their new brick table, that laptop and one position.
And we don't get to see, is this the right person? And we don't get to. To introduce them to the right culture. The owner, like orientation says, set that same table up, but let's walk outside. You walk outside and you bring them all the way to the curb, and you say, this is my restaurant. This is the view that every person sees whenever they are driving by, whether they are choosing to eat here or not. And as you come into the parking lot, we sweep this parking lot every single day. Not just up to the curb, but past the curb, all the way to this line right here. Because we want to make sure we don't surround our business with trash. And then with flies. Then you walk them to the back. We always scrub these parking lots.
[00:49:15] Speaker A: We.
[00:49:16] Speaker B: We always scrub these sidewalks. Here is the trash can. We make sure the doors stay closed so that the flies stay in. And if there's anything that drops, we pick it up, up off the ground because we don't want it to stink back on this side. But you're walking them through the entire exterior and then the interior as you're walking in, when you open up those doors, what do you see? What do you hear? What does that. What does the customer see as they walk up to the. The host stand or the front counter? And then as they have a seat? But doing this, doing this for four, One, it lets the person show you their body language. On this is not for me. I'm not really ready to do all of this stuff. That's fine. Okay, great.
I am glad, because people like us do these things, like those seven words.
And then with the person that's coming on board, they have a better sense of the big picture, that they don't just own one table, one laptop, and one position. They own the parking lot. They own the dining room. They own walking back to that kitchen. And when your team sees that your new hires has a heightened sense, a bigger sense of what the big picture is, that's whenever they actually run towards training them more. Versus, ah, here goes a dang. Another one. That's. That's all. That's only concern with just the fry station. But that helps to close that culture gap. One and two. Helps to recognize, is this the right people coming in? And three, they now have a bigger sense of more than just three. Areas, but every sense of the exterior, the interior, and the team that they're working with.
[00:51:02] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I love that. I mean, it's an easy thing that I think everyone can just change the way that they onboard that first step. I love that a lot. Listen, Jason, I've loved this conversation. I could keep doing this on and on and on.
I've got these five questions I ask. Everybody's on the show. Are you. You game for the five questions?
[00:51:22] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:51:22] Speaker A: They're easy. They're easy. All right, first question. What's the last great meal you had?
[00:51:29] Speaker B: Now, I. I do cook at home quite a bit. I probably cook five nights a week, but outside of cooking, I'd have to say the last great meal I had was at Joey D's Oak Room in Atlanta. They have some amazing beef ribs and some amazing charbroiled oysters. Fell in love with their bar and their food, and they're the only ones that I think does beef ribs better than I do.
[00:51:58] Speaker A: Okay, that's. I love. I love beef ribs. So the gauntlet has been. Has been thrown down. Great. All right, second question. I want you to think about one of the last great hospitality touches you've had. It can be big, it could be little, it can be last week, it could be last year, but something where somebody went above and beyond where you went. Whoa. Like, that was. That was really great hospitality. What comes to mind?
[00:52:26] Speaker B: I'd have to say Angus Barn. Angus Barn in Raleigh.
We were there for a Christmas party. There was, like 30 of us there, and we were asked if we wanted to do the wine cellar tour. Now, mind you, we already placed the order. There's like 30 of us. So in my mind, I'm like, what? We're getting up and the food is cooking. This is not going to be good. So we go down to the wine cellar. We do this huge tour. It takes like an hour. And first, having that piece of getting the. The details of how they pick their wines, where they come from, all of that stuff is just amazing. Then we toured their kitchen as well. But in my mind, as an operator, I'm like, man, our order is just all screwed up. So we get back up.
So we get back up, we have a seat, and within like, eight minutes, everything comes out selling steam. Steam coming off of everything. I'm like. Like, this is amazing. Not only is the place amazing, getting that tour and then coming up after like, an hour.
[00:53:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:53:36] Speaker B: And everything is ready. That, to me, was amazing hospitality.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it's awesome. All right, great. Question three. If A genie came down and granted you one wish as it relates to our industry. What would you wish for?
[00:53:50] Speaker B: Coaching. For every manager and above in our industry. I still feel that coaching, most people view it as something that is reserved for the top 5% of any kind of executive. But coaching is something that every manager in our industry needs.
[00:54:09] Speaker A: Great. I love it. All right. What would you tell someone who's about to open their very first restaurant?
[00:54:15] Speaker B: Ah, treat it like a business first and like. And like a restaurant second. There's. There's too many times people open restaurants because it's cool, because they saw something that was overseas or they just like, love the food. That's great. But it's a business first. So treat it like a business first and like a restaurant second.
[00:54:34] Speaker A: I love that. All right, last question. Talk to me about the future of restaurants. I want you to look five years down the line and tell me something that you think is coming that other people may not see coming.
[00:54:45] Speaker B: Subscription based ordering. Now, what I mean by that is not subscription based ordering is taking over 100% of your rest revenue. I see it as similar to a doordash type model to where anywhere from 7 to 30% of your revenue comes from this thing. And that thing can be maybe some kind of partnership with your main distributor. Maybe all of the products that you get from your main vendor. They have customers sign up for a certain amount of. Of menu items that are on your menu and on this base that the customer pays Cisco or PFG or whomever that they get to choose out of these restaurants and these items for this many times per month. So you then have this revenue coming from your main DC of what they're paying you each month and then people are able to choose from those items. I think that that's the model. Getting back to your question on the hospitality side, because these cell phones, they're the thing that has taken a bit of the hospitality out of the restaurant business. Because our business blends with our personal life, our personal life blends with our business life. And these days we just want time to eat. So when it comes down to that, we sometimes just want the food. And that type of service coming from your main vendor, you have priced out these six items that if people sign up for each month and pay this, I think that's something that down the road people should start doing because that makes sense when you have less time and you just want to choose certain things.
[00:56:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it. Additional revenue streams. That seems like a really powerful thing. We're certainly moving towards more and more and more convenience. So it's great. Great. Jason, I've appreciated our time together. Talk. Talk about your book more deliberately. Give us the quick plug as as people are listening to this now because we're recording this ahead of time. But this is dropping today. March 18th. What happens today, Jason?
[00:57:04] Speaker B: Today the book drops. Every leader needs followers. 10 keys to transform Restaurant Manager to Hospitality Leaders. And it's not just about buying a book. I want to give $30,000 back in 30 days to the Giving Kitchen. If you don't know who the Giving Kitchen is, they are a wonderful nonprofit. They help food service workers in need. I help food service workers transform to hospitality leaders. I can give back $30,000 to giving kitchen by putting this book in the hands of 10,000 food service.
That $30,000 is $1,000 a day for every year this industry gave me. That is the least I can do for what the restaurant business has done for me. So I want this book to help transform your team, our teams to be leaders, not just managers. And then get some coaching as well.
[00:58:05] Speaker A: I love it. Where do people go? Where should we send them to go get the book?
[00:58:09] Speaker B: They can go to jasonebrooks.com that's going to have everything you need.
And again, Chip, it's, it's going to be great to see you in Vegas. I'll be at the Bar and Restaurant Expo on stage doing one of my talks, Leading with the right mindset. Managing versus leading versus coaching. Hope to see you there. And we have to catch up. Okay.
[00:58:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. It's my favorite show to get to every single year. I'm glad you're going to be out there. I'll be excited to connect and to see the book. So again, we're recording this ahead of time, but if you're listening to this in real time, it's March 18th. The book has dropped today and I hope you go out and get it. Jason, I appreciate your time. All your insights and experiences, you'd be willing to share that with us. Thank you very much.
[00:58:55] Speaker B: Thank you, Chip.
[00:58:57] Speaker A: Now once again, I gotta thank Jason for taking time out of his day to sit and chat with me, share his experiences and insights. The book is out now. The links are all in the show notes. So I hope you go check that out. One final request, please. If you get anything, any sort of value out of this show. So go leave us a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. That more than anything else helps us move the needle. Again, Apple Podcasts leave us a five star rating and review. Just let people know what you get out of the show while you continue to listen to it. That, more than anything, would help us out immensely. I appreciate you being here, and I will see you next time.
